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Topic: What is a chess master?
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| Yes. As you say, we allow it to be a governing body. Therefore, we allow it to control the titles FM, IM, GM, etc. |
Ok I misunderstood you about master however, because we allow it to be a governing body does not give it exclusive rights, the key word is allow, and if we allow another organization or group to award these title we are fully in our rights to do so! FIDE means nothing unless I allow it to mean something, just because FIDE means something to you in this case does not mean it must mean the same to others. So using FIDE as the standard to judge ratings is meaningless to some players because these players don’t recognize FIDE.
From a legal standpoint I guess we could end this discussion really quick, since copyright law requires that anything that is truly copyright must produce the required information on demand or display this information, normally a copyright number, but because you can not copyright the word International or Grand or master in combination with any of the aforementioned words FIDE clearly does not have exclusive rights. The same principles apply to chess games, you can not copyright a chess game, and the only thing you can copyright is the comments or annotation of a player regarding that chess game.
| Excuse me? Cheating on the internet is absolutely trivial |
So has the discussion regarding cheating worked its way down to the point that because it is harder to cheat at OTB play this is somehow more acceptable than internet chess because of the degree of difficulty? If two bank robbers plead guilty to robbing a bank and one bank robber does it the old fashion way (actually goes to the bank to rob it) and the other uses the internet to do the same job will the Judge think that because it is more difficult to rob the bank in the old fashion way this is more acceptable? I think not, the same sentence will be handed down to both. Cheating is cheating it doesn’t matter how easy or difficult it is it happens in both OTB and internet chess.
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Btw., on a tournament with 10 Master's candidat's [ MK = in CRO language = majstorski kandidat  ] , or more, the winner is a new national's chess Master [M]
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| anyone4chess: Ok I misunderstood you about master however, because we allow it to be a governing body does not give it exclusive rights... |
It's not a matter of exclusivity of rights. My point is that everybody in the chess world agrees that the phrases `grandmaster', `international master' and `FIDE master' mean what FIDE currently says they mean. Sure, in an alternate reality, we could agree that a grandmaster is a kind of fish, an international master is a postage stamp and a FIDE master is a credit card but that's not what those words mean in this world. More realistically, another organisation could start to use the grandmaster title, perhaps even in competition with FIDE. But this has not happened. (Yet.)
| ... copyright law requires... |
This has nothing to do with copyright. (Incidentally, there's no such thing as a `copyright number' in Europe: in the EU, there is no requirement to register a copyright.) If one were to attempt to use intellectual property legislation to prevent other people from using these terms in other ways, the appropriate mechanism would be the trademark.
| So has the discussion regarding cheating worked its way down to the point that because it is harder to cheat at OTB play this is somehow more acceptable than internet chess because of the degree of difficulty? |
That's not what I said at all! My point is that cheating OTB is sufficiently difficult that it is reasonable to assume that people who perform well OTB do so because they are good at chess and, hence, reward them with prize money, titles and so on. On the internet, there's no way of knowing if somebody's amazing tournament result is because he's a really strong player or because he's got a really fast computer.
If you find that somebody has been cheating OTB, of course you deal with him just like you'd deal with any other cheater.
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Well then I guess we will have to agree to disagree on these issues, copyright or trademark or what every term you want to use, the bottom line is FIDE doesn’t own the rights to those terms used, and never will.
Several organization do use the terms in question and have for years, you feel a FM, IM and GM mean something if associated with FIDE, that is your opinion, I have a different opinion.
Regarding cheating, you state on the internet you never know if the result is because the player is using a computer, in OTB chess how do we know the player is not using a computer every time he leaves the chess board or is accessing a computer while sitting at the board. The point is, we don’t know and we never will, the joy and curse of technology.
Thanks, the conversation and comments were excellent.
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| anyone4chess wrote: Several organization do use the terms in question and have for years, you feel a FM, IM and GM mean something if associated with FIDE, that is your opinion, I have a different opinion. |
I am willing to state for sure that nobody but FIDE uses the title FIDE Master. Could you give examples of other organizations that use the terms International Master and Grandmaster with respect to the game of chess? I'm not aware of any.
| Regarding cheating, you state on the internet you never know if the result is because the player is using a computer, in OTB chess how do we know the player is not using a computer every time he leaves the chess board or is accessing a computer while sitting at the board. The point is, we don’t know and we never will, the joy and curse of technology. |
Of course we don't know for sure that an OTB player isn't cheating. However, it's much easier to take precautions to make it difficult and much easier to watch an OTB player to see if he's doing anything suspicious. On the internet, your opponent could be doing anything and you have no way of knowing. OTB, you can see that your opponent is spending more time in the toilet than at the board and report your suspicions to the arbiter.
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